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Lens hoods, filters, and adapters for S4080 bridge camera.. help with sunny day portraits?

A question for the bridge camera users.. I'm using a finepix S4080. On eBay they sell adapters to enable the use of lens hoods, Filters, 2x zoom lens's, etc. Has anyone tried these types of set ups on these cameras? When I took pictures of my son outside on a really sunny day, the landscapes came out clear but a lot of the pictures of him came out too bright on his face or over-exposed altogether. I mostly used Speed priority and manual mode to catch his movements and get some of the scenery in the frame also. Some Pr Auto... I didn't have time to constantly adjust the exposure or move to places where the sun wasn't too bright on his skin.. so the question is, will using lens hoods, UV filters, or any other type of filter help in these types of situations? 

Thanks ahead for any advice or experiences!

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Date Tue, 07/02/2012 - 23:15
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If you camera has thread size on it yes you can for portrait shots i use Aperture priority mode and an ISO 0f 100 Polarizing filter would be good bet as well

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Date Wed, 08/02/2012 - 11:20
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hello and welcome

A lens hood is useful in many situations as well as offering some physical protection. Its main use however is to shade the lens from direct light and thus prevent lens flare. If the Sun is behind you it will not help as the lens is already in the shade.

It is similar with filters,. They have their uses in the right circumstances, but you need to learn what they are.

Without seeing the results of your efforts it is difficult to say why you are getting the result you describe but it sounds as if it is an exposure problem. It may be that the foreground and background require different exposures. Perhaps the dynamic range of the camera will not cope with the amount of difference.

It is always better to expose for the highlights and let the rest fall into place. Any semi auto exposure programme will produce variations from shot to shot.

The use of software can help after the images are taken.

Kind regards,

Chas.

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Date Thu, 09/02/2012 - 19:02
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Shutter speed: 1/52s, F4.1, ISO: 200

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Date Thu, 09/02/2012 - 19:23
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The above example.. his skin isn't that light. and that was even near shade. I'll have to look again at some of the settings and do better with the exposure compensation next time. Maybe adjust the white balance? It was most likely on Auto that day. Here's another example.

Shutter speed: 1/100s, F4, ISO: 80

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Date Thu, 09/02/2012 - 12:22
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Hi

The pictures above are very much overexposed. Even allowing for the pale skin of a young child against a darker background.

There is no exposure data for these but from some similar images in your gallery which are overexposed by two stops I would guess that the  above are overexposed by more than that. I don't know if you understand what that means  or how to correct it.

I don't know the camera or how to control it but if you have been using any auto or semi auto mode such as aperture or shutter priority the metering is being fooled by something, or it may be faulty. It is also possible that the indicated shutter speed may not be the one applied, perhaps staying open too long.

 

The problem is that it is very difficult to check without a known reference say from a accurate exposure meter.

If you can set the camera fully manually try this in similar Sunny conditions.

ISO 200

Shutter speed 250th of a second

Aperture F8

The above settings are a good average exposure for a Sunny day with the selected ISO  of 200. The only proviso is the winter light which can be very bright depending on your latitude.

If you do try my suggestions and the pictures are still pale, change the shutter speed only to 500th of a second and see if there is a difference. That change is one stop allowing less light into the camera. Remember shutter speed only. do not change any other setting.

If the pictures are still light try 1000th of a second. That's another stop of light reduced.

I know the distance between us make contact slow but please post the results in your gallery so that the data can be seen and post again in this thread. I will keep an eye out for it.

Kind regards,

Chas.

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Date Thu, 09/02/2012 - 19:41
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Thanks so much for the advice. I posted the information under each picture. I was mainly using speed priority and pr auto like I thought for most of the pictures that day. I was using a Finepix S4080. In speed priority I can only set ISO to 400 auto or 800 auto, so that doesn't give me much of an option. I'll try manual mode next time with the settings that you suggested and see if that helps. I wanted to try out more settings but it took most of my time chasing after the kid and keeping him away from the hill and muddy water pools! He had fun though, so that's what counts, I just wish I would've gotten better pictures. First attempt on a sunny day, so I can't complain too much. I'll get more chances soon enough. 

I'll post a few more that came out decent in my gallery. Even the ones that weren't overexposed as much came out brighter and paler than I would've liked. I was hoping for more vivid color in the sun light. And I'd love to have less light reflecting off of his skin..but I don't know how to get even lighting in the sun.

Since you said that other images in my gallery are overexposed by 2 stops, should I always use a smaller aperture? On this camera, even in manual and AP mode, I only get two options for aperture settings, 3.1 or 8... I normally go for the larger aperture and faster shutter speed so that i can keep the ISO down...since I'm indoors most of the time. Not really sure what to do with such a limited range to choose from.

Thanks again!

George

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Date Fri, 10/02/2012 - 15:19
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Hi

I think we can both agree that the problem is one of overexposure. Tracking down why is the first task and I would be interested to see the results using full manual and the settings I suggested.

I am not that familiar with bridge cameras in general and yours in particular but the difficulty of only having the choice of two apertures is common on some models. It seems to be more affected when you zoom. I hope it is possible to set the f8 in manual mode at the widest angle, even if is just for the experiment.

Neutral density filters can be used to cut the light entering the camera but you need to know how to use them.

There are other threads on this forum about only having the choice of two apertures which might be worth searching for using the box at the top right.

In auto  or semi auto mode such as aperture or shutter priority the camera is making the exposure adjustment, and with all things being equal, this exposure will always be the same although expressed differently each time.

There is a relationship between ISO, shutter speed and aperture which can only be explained by understanding the principles of photographic exposure.

A simple illustration may be as follows.

With the ISO fixed throughout, the following combinations produce the same level of exposure. the subject does not matter as this is only theory. Each combination lets in the same amount of light.

1000th of a sec; f4

500th of a sec; f5.6

250th of a sec; f8

125th of a sec; f11

white balance can play a part in colour rendering. Auto white balance usually copes with most general conditions. It is only in say mixed lighting, i.e. daylight and tungsten, where problems arise and you may have to decide which one is preferred by using a custom white balance.

I will look out for your next post.

Kind regards,

Chas.

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Date Fri, 10/02/2012 - 15:31
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Hi and welcome.
As well as the information Chas has given you I suggest you try taking some pictures of a static object with different settings and see how they come out.
With a static subject in one place you can see how the different settings affect the way it looks and you have a consistent subject and conditions for comparison. Chasing children around is great fun but not the best for trying to test your camera ! 

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Date Sat, 11/02/2012 - 19:44
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Thanks again for the suggestions, both of you. Hopefully I'll get a sunny day again sometime soon to test out these settings. Mostly snowy and cloudy the past couple weeks. I do want to try out a neutral density filter... I was trying to take a picture of the snow falling today without completely freezing the flakes, but couldn't slow down the shutter enough without overexposing, and I've read that those can help with things like that.

This is a picture that the light meter in manual mode said was a perfect exposure. Hopefully it appears so to trained eyes, or maybe the camera is off a little. It was a midday shot, sun was out but not exptremely bright.

Mid day shot from the porch.

Speed: 1/500s, F8.0, ISO: 100

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Date Sun, 12/02/2012 - 17:29
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Hi

That's certainly better and about what you might expect at this time of the year with fairly low sun.

From the data it is maybe a stop underexposed but given the bright sun on snow it has helped to keep some detail in the snow and darkened the sky to affect. If you allow one stop up to say 250th @ f8 it is not far from my first suggestion for a manual setting of 250th @ f8 using an ISO of 200. actually one more stop.

It seems to confirm my initial thought that those early images were about 3 stops overexposed.

500th @ f8 is four stop less than those early pics which were around 100th @ f4.

the cameras meter is working correctly in some circumstances so why not all the time? I wonder what type of metering is being used, pattern or spot? It can make a difference.

I am glad to hear that you can see the meter in the viewfinder. You will be able to see it change as the camera is pointed at different subjects. If you are using spot metering it will change as you move from dark to light areas of the same scene.

hope these conversations have been helpful.

Kind regards,

Chas.

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Date Sun, 12/02/2012 - 19:33
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Yes very helpful. Thank you. I read a lot and experiment with the camera, but it's so much better learning from those that can talk from years of experience. I've mainly used cell phone cameras and a few cheap film cameras when I was a kid. So I'm learning a lot on this camera and taking photography a lot more seriously. 

On the s4080 I can choose from multi-pattern, spot, or average metering. I have yet to experiment with these settings because I haven't learned what they mean. I the default is spot, so that's what it's been on, unless the auto modes change it. 

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Date Mon, 13/02/2012 - 18:10
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Hi

 Thanks for that and the last sentence about the spot metering answers most of my questions. I did not think of that until I saw the snow picture. This site does not support the data reader called Expanda which shows such information.

 Spot meters have there uses in some situations but it would not be what I would use all the time. It would not be a good default setting. I will come back to that.

 A spot meter measures a very narrow angle. In a camera this is usually at the centre of the viewfinder. The one I use only reads one degree where as a general meter reading using perhaps Pattern will read the light from many parts of the viewfinder and present an average. This is usually better for a scene with dark and light areas. I think that if you change the setting to pattern most exposures will be better.

You should be able to read about how the various exposure modes work in the camera manual.

 The camera meter reads the light by reflection from the subject, so if you use a spot meter and point it at a general scene the only part that is being read is in the centre. If this is a dark tree the camera will attempt to set the exposure for the dark area leading to overexposure for the rest. Point to a light areas, like the snow, and the reverse happens.

 The reasons are historic which you can look up but a reflected exposure is based on the reflection from a ‘standard’ grey card. This is often called an 18% grey card. The camera meter can only ‘see’ in black and white and the assumption in made that all exposures are from the grey card.

Snow is not grey but the camera will try and make it so making it too dark. Dark trees are not grey but the camera will try and make it so which will be too light.

An average will pitch the exposure somewhere between the two and this is what the pattern will do by taking readings across the scene.

 A spot meter can be used in situations where the part you want a correct exposure for is difficult. The moon in a dark sky is one which often comes up. The exposure for a full Moon can be the same as for a sunny day on Earth but a pattern metering will be reading mostly dark sky leading to overexposure of the Moon surface.

 The reverse might be a black cat against a white fence background.

  Finally a return to the problems of reflected meter readings. Whereas they will work for many even most situations, it will rely on what is known as an average subject. I.e. A mix of tones and colours which when averaged create this 18% grey. It is possible in manual mode to read the light from a grey card place in the same light to set up the exposure.

 The only accurate way of reading light is to measure the light that is falling on the subject. This is called ‘Incident’ reading and is the method I would always use when working with film. A built in meter can not do this.

 I am sorry to be a little long but I hope it helps to explain the reasons.

 In practice if you use the pattern mode of metering for most subjects your results should be more satisfactory.

 Try it and let’s see the results.

Kind regards,

Chas.

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Date Fri, 17/02/2012 - 22:14
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Thanks for the information. That helps to explain a lot. I wish I'd read this before stopping at a lookout to take some pictures the other day. It was still on spot metering. I had people (including an impatient toddler) waiting for me in the car, so I only had time to take a set at 1/250s and a few at 1/500 when I was facing towards the sun. They still came out over-exposed, witht he exception of when I was using telefoto and the aperture closed to F11 or F13. Those came out fine. 

Since then I've put the metering on pattern or average and I like the results on those settings much better. 

Here is the pic at 250 (F8, ISO 200)

still overexposed

And here is how the water actually looked that day.. I had to take down the brightness by 56 points using zoner photo studio editing software. 

how i want it to look

Next time I get a chance to stop at that lookout on a sunny day I'll try 1/1000 to start. And maybe see what this polarizing lens can do, since at that time of the day the sun is directly to my right. Have you had much success using those? 

 

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Date Sat, 18/02/2012 - 12:23
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hi

I am glad that sorted it out. I was beginning to think it might be the camera at fault.

I was going to mention the use of software for adjustments but you already know about some. As you may know Adobe Photoshop is the industry standard. there are several versions the latest of the full version is CS5, however Elements is a lower priced version that can be upgraded when needed

Many people use free versions of Picassa or faststone. both are simple to use.

Adjustments have always been necessary to the photographic image.

Polarising filters used with colour photography have two main uses. The  more general use is to reduce reflections on water or windows and other reflective surfaces. For colour it can help to darken the blue in a sky but only when the Sun

is behind you or in a 90 degree to either side.

The filter should rotate to see the various effects. Such filters are dark and will use up two stops of exposure. The cameras meter will compensate for this but you need to be aware of the lower shutter speed if hand holding.

 

Kind regards,

Chas.